Diegetic vs Non-Diegetic

There's a recent discussion on the TTRPG Design Community on Facebook that I've posted on (circa 7th Sept 2025). As per the nature of Facebook discussions, it's gone round in circles with people wanting to define the terms, then define how the definitions of those terms work, and shoot off in tangents before some says, but "that's not what the OP is saying" and the cycle starts anew.

(There's actually plenty of discussions like that, and it's pretty endemic across game design and many other niche hobbies... but there's one particular example I'm thinking of here.)

The discussion is about diegetic and non-diegetic advancement in an RPG. The original author has had a few attempts at his stance, and I think refining an idea with extra input is great. However, I'd like to explore the idea further without derailing his discussion further, so I've brought it here to the blog. 

I hope Benjamin Lloyd doesn't mind, but I'm going to cut and paste the OP wholesale to start things off...

Here is the third edit of my essay. please let me know if you have any ideas on how to improve it.                                                       

What is Diegetic Advancement

and how can I use it to improve my games?

Diegetic: existing or occurring within the world of a narrative rather than as something external to that world.

Diegetic advancement is how player characters (PC’s) improve within the game’s fiction. E.G. Finding a new, more dangerous weapon, buying a horse, befriending a mayor or studying a new magic spell.

Non-Diegetic advancement is any way that characters in an Rpg improve that is not tied to the in-game world. E.G. Leveling up, increasing stats, getting a +2 to certain rolls.

Now this is not to say that Non-Diegetic advancement is BAD. If your players love optimizing builds, crunching numbers and maxing out bonuses, then they will enjoy more non-diegetic elements. However, I believe every game will benefit immensely when Diegetic elements are included.

Diegetic advancement is important, because it gives your game world a feeling of verisimilitude and increases player immersion. When the world presents problems, players will feel motivated to solve the problems in-world. When the players decide to help Old Bartholomew the Butcher, instead of giving them a Longsword of +4 vs Goblins, he instead gives them his sad pony, Hamstring. Or he sets them up with unlimited dried meats, perfect for long journeys.

Here are some ways to work Diegetic Advancement into your world, and incentivize your players to engage on a deeper, character level with your world.

Stuff

Food, water, light and shelter are Necessities. Players need these things, and you can increase or lower the tension by restricting access to them.

Consumables are very useful when you want to give your players a boost without permanently increasing their power. Grenades, Healing Potions and Poison are all good examples.

Weapons are always in demand. They may be light and easily hidden, heavy and destructive but bulky, or have special properties like setting things on fire.

Armor protects the PC’s. The heavier the armor, the better the protection. But this armor is more bulky and expensive.

Transportation allows PC’s to travel more quickly and/or carry large amounts of cargo. It also allows players to traverse otherwise impassable areas. A boat lets them sail across the sea, a flying carpet grants access to the tower atop a marble pillar.

Strongholds are important buildings that exert control over the land and nearby settlements. This may be a castle, factory, military base etc. Strongholds give the PC’s somewhere safe where they can rest and resupply. The local population will often support the stronghold with taxes or labor. PC’s can hire expert craftsmen or other specialists to stay in the stronghold, as well as keep a regiment of Mercenaries to guard it.

People

Followers are non-player characters (NPC’s) run by the Game Master. They are hired by the player characters to provide services. They may be simple servants like lamp-carriers and porters, expensive specialists like Siege Engineers and Trauma Surgeons, or entire regiments of Mercenaries.

Fame, Reputation and Wealth change how a character is treated. Gaining an audience with the Wealthy and Powerful, getting a discount from a Merchant or persuading an enemy to surrender are all impacted by these things. Very famous (or infamous) characters can create a Faction, uniting their Followers for a particular cause or goal.

Skills are achieved by training under a teacher. Learning basic skills does not take long, but more specialized talents require time and money to develop. Skills make it possible to attempt certain challenges. For example performing a heart transplant without learning surgery would normally be impossible. And if your character has studied under a world-famous heart surgeon, they may even get a boost to their attempt.

Strange Powers such as Psionics, Magic or Chi-powered Kung Fu are also trained, but often have more strict requirements, such as needing particular materiels or finding rare teachers.

Patrons are NPC’s who recognize the PC’s potential, and offer them support in exchange for their services. A Nemesis is an NPC who’s goals conflict with the PC’s. These characters serve to tie players to the world by offering rewards or presenting challenges to them.

Summary

To use diegetic advancement, first players must Know that it is available.

Then establish Requirements, like money, reputation or access to a special materiel or location.

Finally give them the reward, while hinting at even greater rewards. 

It's full of great ideas, and not enough games discuss these types of elements within a game. A lot is taken or granted. 

Here's one of my responses on Facebook.

Tilly Borg...which is half the reason I balance games by opportunity taken in a balanced time in the spotlight, rather than limiting my balance to combat prowess, or magical aptitude. A story can be just as fun and interesting if it shows a seasoned veteran teaching a newbie the techniques of successful adventuring. Diegetically, the veteran gains prestige and other benefits from successfully nurturing a new generation, while the newbie gain valuable skills and understanding. Non-diegetically, it might take longer for the veteran to move upwards in the highest ranks because they've taken step back, but they'll be racking up fame, favours and prestige without risking lie and limb. The newbie quickly advances because ht're full of energy, and willing to take more risks, but no-one knows them yet, and people won't deal with an unknown. The blance isn't in having them both confront the same obstacles, but in having them both face issues that are personally important to them as a character. Consider "Gandalf" versus "Sam Gamgee".

(Note that Tilly Borg is another respondent on the Facebook thread)  

It alludes to various points I've made over the years such as red-amber-green, game balance (1), game balance (2), item driven narrative, and the elements I've added into the SNAFU SRD (I'm sure such things were discussed on Praxis too). It probably doesn't address the specific points of diegetic versus non-diegetic, but it a series of ideas that frames my ideas on the matter.

I revised my perspective on a second post...

Tilly Borg, it's a paradigm shift. Diegetic rewards enhance a character's ability to influence the world, non-diegetic rewards enhance a player's ability to influence the story. There will often be overlap beteen these (but not always). It typically makes sense within the game world for diegetic goals and bonuses to be linked to the specific actions undertaken by a character (the choices and sacrifices they make). However, non-diegetic goals and bonuses need not be related to the specific events unfolding in the narrative, but may be linked to the actions taken by players.

It still wasn't exactly what I wanted to say, but it's what came to me at the spur of the moment. Hence my need to write a new series of posts, to really dig down into my understanding of what's happening here. I'll try to break this down into three additional posts (but if you're a regular reader of the blog, you'll know that this will probably extend and expand). We'll see how things go.