tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2482451413021840738.post3799542631537077678..comments2024-03-28T13:20:08.709+11:00Comments on Observations of the Fox: Table ConsensusVulpinoidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04511600075328621953noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2482451413021840738.post-32784760363708142552010-11-20T15:11:28.183+11:002010-11-20T15:11:28.183+11:00"Is there a way to make the system more struc..."Is there a way to make the system more structurally sound?"<br /><br />I'm not sure I even understand the problem.<br /><br />These are narrative games, telling your part of the story with logical consistency and flow, in ways that make sense for the world and the character as it's been portrayed up until now is part of skillfully playing the game.<br /><br />Even in one of the most traditional and goofy of games, Palladium, you can agree as a group not to just accept XP handed out arbitrarily by the GM at the end of a session, but to go down the list and ask specifically, with everyone voting, "Did this character come up with a plan that saved lives?" etc. with the GM simply acting as a judge, in that if the answer is yes, the GM decides which amount of XP in that range to award.<br /><br />Let's be honest here, the most advanced games that reward in character play in a non-GM's-whim kind of way only change the Palladium model in two ways. You make up your own list of what you want your character to be rewarded for, and you can change it over time, like Keys in The Shadow of Yesterday.<br /><br />It still does not change the idea that you have to convince your audience (you and your fellow players, the reason you are role-playing rather than writing a novel or doing a podcast) that your character is addressing that list of things. If your character gets XP every time he gives up the chance for material gain to help his friends, and an NPC asks your PC to watch his dog while he runs into a coffee shop, and the NPC will get the PC something as a reward, and you decide, "No, my character will not do this because it might make him late to meet his friends. Now make with the XP." then you have to tell the story in such a way that you convince them it counts. If you can do it, if you can tell the story in way that makes them say, "OK, that counts. You get XP." then you are far better at this game than I am.<br /><br />And I'm pretty damn good. Few people can milk Burning Wheel beliefs and traits as well as I can. My friend Chris is really good at fishing for traits. "I'm going to use the polymorph spell again. My character is certainly a frequent <i>shapeshifter</i>; hint hint." all because he found the trait shapeshifter in the monster burner and wants another cool power for his wizard character, so he wants one of us to nominate his wizard for shapeshifter and all of us to vote it onto his sheet.Sheikh Jahbootyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08353865881591884445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2482451413021840738.post-40578490664032341932010-11-16T15:53:58.407+11:002010-11-16T15:53:58.407+11:00Yeah, that's an ongoing issue that I've fa...Yeah, that's an ongoing issue that I've faced as a GM, but it's something that I've been hit hard with from the player side as well.<br /><br />I've been one of those players who comes to the table with a fifteen page character history knowing exactly what I wanted to address through the story, only to find that the GM didn't really care and he wanted to tell some other story. <br /><br />To make it worse, that particular GM asked for that kind of detail from all the players which resulted in some very elaborate characters...but then he expected them to address his unrelated game premise rather than incorporating their ideas into his story.<br /><br />That's sort of what I'm trying to say with my "symbiotic" comment. It's all a bit of give and take, and in most traditional games the giving and taking is a very one sided equation (GM --> Player).<br /><br />Even in my most traditional games, I try to draw a couple of cues from the actions that seem to interest the players and the flags they've raised for their characters. It's nice to see a few games incorpoarting this kind of idea into their core mechanisms.Vulpinoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511600075328621953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2482451413021840738.post-62274549471667120862010-11-16T15:13:31.538+11:002010-11-16T15:13:31.538+11:00While I agree with most of your key ideas here, I&...While I agree with most of your key ideas here, I'd also say one of the most important things is for the players to communicate those desires with the GM. I try to build my games around the characters-- and how the players present those characters. If they state some specific plot desires, then great. Otherwise I have to base judgments on what the characters seem to pay attention to at the table. It bugs me when I ask players what they want for their character and I get little response or something that they change their mind about after it comes into play. That's actually be a real warning sign for problem and disruptive players in the long term-- when they can't or won't provide that kind of feedback for the GM.Lowell Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02359280169506945906noreply@blogger.com